long time, no new public release

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vsrawat
Posts: 161
Joined: 05.11.2009, 20:09

long time, no new public release

#1 Post by vsrawat » 17.07.2015, 13:41

release 685 public made on 30.01.2015

Almost 6 months have passed, hope you would make a "public" release sometime soon.

Thanks.

horst.epp
Posts: 153
Joined: 15.11.2008, 19:18

Re: long time, no new public release

#2 Post by horst.epp » 17.07.2015, 18:54

vsrawat wrote:release 685 public made on 30.01.2015

Almost 6 months have passed, hope you would make a "public" release sometime soon.

Thanks.
Why don't you spend a small amount of money
and you will have access to all the beta builds.
That also helps Marek to provide such a program for free.

vsrawat
Posts: 161
Joined: 05.11.2009, 20:09

Re: long time, no new public release

#3 Post by vsrawat » 17.07.2015, 20:56

my apologies for asking.

eightbit
Posts: 1
Joined: 08.07.2015, 01:36

Re: long time, no new public release

#4 Post by eightbit » 23.07.2015, 01:16

vsrawat wrote:my apologies for asking.

Apologies will not get you access to the beta builds, but a donation will :) Give it a try!

DeafeningSocks
Posts: 2
Joined: 29.08.2015, 09:11

Re: long time, no new public release

#5 Post by DeafeningSocks » 29.08.2015, 09:28

eightbit wrote:Apologies will not get you access to the beta builds, but a donation will :) Give it a try!
You probably didn't notice the sarcasm in his reply. I don't think there is an apology needed for asking for a new public release after 7 months without a new public version, while 10 preview releases were provided for donors.

Of course, you can call this policy freeware, but I consider it "semi-shareware". After all, the author can indefinitely delay the release of the next public version, and in the meantime, urge people to pay for the interim versions. Considering that "donations" should be "voluntary", I cannot find this kind of policy worth of support. I uninstalled every copy of FreeCommander I had, and will use other freeware file managers in the future -- after all, now there are a couple of very capable free programs out there surpassing FreeCommander in every aspect, and not having such questionable policies.

horst.epp
Posts: 153
Joined: 15.11.2008, 19:18

Re: long time, no new public release

#6 Post by horst.epp » 29.08.2015, 14:29

DeafeningSocks wrote:
eightbit wrote:Apologies will not get you access to the beta builds, but a donation will :) Give it a try!
You probably didn't notice the sarcasm in his reply. I don't think there is an apology needed for asking for a new public release after 7 months without a new public version, while 10 preview releases were provided for donors.

Of course, you can call this policy freeware, but I consider it "semi-shareware". After all, the author can indefinitely delay the release of the next public version, and in the meantime, urge people to pay for the interim versions. Considering that "donations" should be "voluntary", I cannot find this kind of policy worth of support. I uninstalled every copy of FreeCommander I had, and will use other freeware file managers in the future -- after all, now there are a couple of very capable free programs out there surpassing FreeCommander in every aspect, and not having such questionable policies.
You have only to donor once and you can even define the amount to pay freely.
This has nothing to do with shareware and doesn't in no way deserve your unnecessary comment.
I know almost all file managers and have licenses for many of them for private use and testing at the job.
Freecommander is one of the best free versions available.

vsrawat
Posts: 161
Joined: 05.11.2009, 20:09

Re: long time, no new public release

#7 Post by vsrawat » 29.08.2015, 18:31

Developers are not asking and prompting for donation,
it seems some donors are highlighting themselves as donors,
and then other donors join the chorus.

I have seen some other software also having same functioning style in fora, donors thinking they are more privileged than free users.

Then, the actual developers also go with the flow, just not to offend someone who has paid money to him, however small or big.

There was one XanaNews a newsreader, where developer used to side with donors and scold free users. That is an abondoneware now, some divine justice.

The bottom line is: If free commander is to remain a free software, even donations should not be asked with such a force and promptness that it might offend free users. Otherwise it is will become a Donor-Coterie Controlled software.

And, to remind all the money-fliers among you! Free users are "not" really a burden and pain and a total loss, we test and explore the software and give our feedback and bug reports and improvement suggestions. Developers might find this useful even if you think that only money matters.

And, free users also pray to God that may be Nadella buys fc for some millions and gives it for free as a replace of dumbo windows explorer in W11.

Thanks.
Last edited by vsrawat on 29.08.2015, 18:38, edited 3 times in total.

vsrawat
Posts: 161
Joined: 05.11.2009, 20:09

Re: long time, no new public release

#8 Post by vsrawat » 29.08.2015, 18:33

I have been using this since w7 days when ms had the stupidity to spoil its windows explorer by adding all those libraries and stopped allowing me to access my folders the way I was used to in earlier versions. And once I stumbled upon fc, I got overwhelmed by its feature that are mountain high in comparison with miniscule of windows explorer.

I patiently waited for public release, and it kept on coming now and then. Only this time it has got delayed a lot, maybe the developers are busy.

fe is still doing great work for me, so I am sticking with it. If sometime I need to do something that it is not able to do, then I will also search for alternatives. That will be my criteria for sticking with it or leaving it, not the delay in public release.

catweazle9
Posts: 22
Joined: 30.03.2009, 08:37

Re: long time, no new public release

#9 Post by catweazle9 » 29.08.2015, 20:31

+1 for another public release soon.

DeafeningSocks
Posts: 2
Joined: 29.08.2015, 09:11

Re: long time, no new public release

#10 Post by DeafeningSocks » 30.08.2015, 15:12

horst.epp wrote:You have only to donor once and you can even define the amount to pay freely.
This is not completely true, there is a minimum amount if you want a "perpetual" access to beta version. It is not a big amount, it is a reasonable amount, no problem with that. What I don't like about it is how it's forced on me.
horst.epp wrote:This has nothing to do with shareware and doesn't in no way deserve your unnecessary comment.
I agree, that was a bit harsh. The author is fully entitled to choose how often and in what way he releases a new public version. On the other hand, he can abuse this as well.

I repeat, there were 10 preview versions so far since 685. Which means the author could and did work on this project regularly, he just doesn't feel like releasing a new public version for whatever reason. So how many more preview releases before a public one? Will there be a new public release this year at all?

Also, looking at the release notes we see that most of the changes were bug fixes with some new features added. Okay, give the new feature early to the donators. But if I do not donate, then I do not get bug fixes for > 7 months? Well, again the author is fully entitled to have a policy like that, and I am fully entitled to think that is not completely fair.
horst.epp wrote:Freecommander is one of the best free versions available.
No doubt about it. I liked the XE version quite much when it came out. But haven't been using it for some time, due to some minor but irritating bugs. Didn't feel like donating due to the kind of policy here.

At the moment I have 4 file managers installed, 3 free ones and Total Commander (yes, I bought a license for it several years ago). So you see, I am using freeware file managers not because I need to, but just as a hobby, and out of respect to their authors. I donated to two of these free file managers, and did a translation for one of them. I gladly contribute, when I feel inspired. It is just not the case for FC.

I am not trying to convince anyone, just wanted to tell you my opinion about the "Apologies will not get you access to the beta builds, but a donation will" kind of attitude.

bill0255
Posts: 17
Joined: 07.06.2012, 05:34

Re: long time, no new public release

#11 Post by bill0255 » 18.10.2015, 21:57

I have tested and experimented with hundreds of freeware and commercial applications over the past 20 years. In my private life the applications I focus on are primarily freeware. Many of the developers I've communicated with over the years develop their software because a) they couldn't find a product anywhere that did what they wanted, b) the products that did what they wanted didn't have the features they wanted or cost more than what they thought it was worth, but mostly they are c) hobbyists that just like writing code and creating an application they and possible others find useful. A plan to cash in on their application was never the motivation.

Developers tend to have very low expectations when it comes to donations because they rarely receive donations and if they do the amount of the donations certainly never covers the bills. Plus, there's generally not much incentive to donors since the donations rarely grant anything to the donor. At least with FC the donation came with access to the beta versions.

Commercial applications go out of there way to specifically state that upgrades, bug fixes, new features, and how often those might be released, are never guaranteed. It's frustrating for the users waiting for the next major release but companies have learned not to give out release dates that might not be met.

For a developer working on freeware the above goes triple. People forget that developers involved in freeware development have a life outside of coding. With the exception of the most basic application this type of development is a project. Because they have other committments such as job, family, and other personal demands on their time they can never give anything more than a general prediction of when an upgrade will be released and most won't even provide that because it raises user expectations.

With commercial software where a company can spend hundreds, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars each year in licensing and support costs, I can understand a user base being critical if the software does not meet expectations or if there's a significant delay in getting updates. What amazes me is how many users of free software will criticize a developer when the user doesn't get what they want when they want it. Even if the request is reasonable, being unnecessarily critical, snarky, rude, or throwing what amounts to a mini-tantrum in a forum and threatening to go off and use another product tends to eclipse anything that might have been "reasonable".

Most commercial applications might release 1 to 2 "upgrades" a year and even that number is never guaranteed. Before those releases occur to the public the company wants to make sure the software is as bug and error free as possible or their ability to "support" the product can be quickly overwhelmed. Too many bugs and crashes will also quickly undermine confidence in the product as well. This is why testing over time is important and why developers don't talk about release dates.

I've been part of beta testing in the past for commercial applications and depending on the vendors development cycle I've received as few as 1 to 6 (sometimes more) beta updates a month. Often this was in preparation for a version release of the software that was 6 to 12 months away. The point being is that 10 beta or "donor" releases over a period of even 12 months is not particular high and may not represent other significant changes being made to the software in the background that aren't ready even for beta testing.

Developers are easy targets for critics, whether those critics have a valid point or not, and being a critic does not necessarily mean the argument is factual or fair. For example, The argument that anyone is being pressured or forced into donating is just another way of the user saying "I want everything for free". That could mean they are broke, and I have some sympathy for them in that case. More likely they don't respect the developer and don't assign any value to the software which simply means they are being selfish. In any case the argument about being forced is absurd and self serving. What the critics don't realize, or care about, is how complex a software development project of this type can be and how much time the developer has to devote to the project, generally with little or no compensation. For those critics who aren't simply being selfish, maybe knowing this might help you be a bit more patient and sympathetic (if not more charitable).

I've used this software for so many years I've lost count. As it has matured it has replaced many standalone utility applications and I've all but stopped using Windows Explorer, which oddly enough, I mostly use when I unpack the zip files to upgrade the portable version of FC. FC has survived many of its peers and, from a customization and feature set, compares favorably to the paid versions of file managers.

After all of the free software I've tried there are only a handful of applications that I have adopted and stuck with over the years that go on any computer I use with FC being the first. Knowing that software development is never easy, I have a lot of respect for anyone associated with this project and the time and effort they put into it.

From a purely business and value sense, I've received way more value from using this software than the two donations I've made over the last several years.

Will I be critical, make requests, point out what I think are flaws? Absolutely, but always with respect.

Bill

vsrawat
Posts: 161
Joined: 05.11.2009, 20:09

Re: long time, no new public release

#12 Post by vsrawat » 19.10.2015, 03:40

latest was release 698 for donors.

I have a hunch that Marek might make the "century" release 700 for public, in order to celebrate the achievement.

I would myself not be downloading and installing so many donors release, even if they had been made available to public. Even firefox, from 33, I updated directly to 39. It is primarily due to thinking that every new release will not pack many innovations, but if I update after 6 months or 1 year, then all the innovations packed in the releases made in between will come to me in one go, and I would be doubly happy seeing so much work done.

It is ok to give some major releases for public, after sufficient gap. It would be helpful if developers could announce some rough estimate, that "every 10th or every 20th release will be for public." or "every 6 months or every 9 months there will be a public release."

--
Rawat

BillyDick
Posts: 13
Joined: 09.10.2012, 11:22

Re: long time, no new public release

#13 Post by BillyDick » 20.10.2015, 15:50

It's been almost 11 months since the last public release.
I wonder how many of the non-paying suggestions have made their way into the latest donor release?

Timon
Posts: 684
Joined: 13.09.2012, 06:51

Re: long time, no new public release

#14 Post by Timon » 23.10.2015, 18:39

FreeCommander XE 2015 Build 700 32-bit public beta release - http://freecommander.com/en/downloads/

Important changes and bug fixes in the release 700 - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=775&start=250#p22202

vodoomoth
Posts: 21
Joined: 06.04.2011, 20:39

Re: long time, no new public release

#15 Post by vodoomoth » 08.03.2016, 17:16

BillyDick wrote:It's been almost 11 months since the last public release.
I wonder how many of the non-paying suggestions have made their way into the latest donor release?
I am a donor since 16/02/2012, almost ever since I came across FreeCommander, and my only pet peeve is this. As you can see, it's been 47 months and a few days. Still counting.

As you can also see, I was a donor before asking for that feature. At least in this case, and if I understand correctly your implicitly saying that paying suggestions make it into the product, you are mistaken. Other posts by me:
Same subject
A different subject
Another different subject

I am myself a software engineer and I have my own company where I do consulting for companies that have the means to pay my expensive wages. What gets me now wondering whether I've been waiting in vain and whether I should switch to another piece of software is the feeling, from the lack of reaction from FJ to any thread or post about that specific subject, that the matter was judged, a verdict was reached and I just don't know it was a definite "No". Idk whether the attitude is the same towards other feature requests as honestly, the only thing I've ever lamented about FC is the Ctrl+Tab cycling: the rest fits all my needs since day 1 and I've even recently been surprised by how advanced some features (folder sync comes to mind) are.

I believe all of what @bill0255 said is true, with the exception of this, which was probably pervasively true 20 years ago:
before those releases occur to the public the company wants to make sure the software is as bug and error free as possible or their ability to "support" the product can be quickly overwhelmed.
Not true anymore. The gaming industry is filled with counter-examples, even from AAA studios.

Software isn't free. It doesn't come out of thin air or wishes or charms or witchcraft or else: software isn't voodoo :lol:. Each, starting with the lone developer working his butt off for others, is entitled to their positions and choices. It just happens that sometimes, their positions and yours don't come into line. You either suck it up or you leave if the frustration is too much or the benefit is too low.

FC is a big accomplishment, so big I still can't fathom how come MS never ditched their own explorer for this. I don't think any user will ever want to take that amount of time from their own life for the good of others. If only the critical users knew!

I for one am a grateful user of FC and I'm waiting for the moment when I can grade it a 100% on my personal satisfaction scale :D

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